Sunday, November 30, 2014

Panzergrenadiers for Gottacon

A few months back I posted about my challenge to complete my Panzer Lehr company for Attack-X in September. I finished that painting challenge 8 hours or so before I had to leave for the tournament. I am now planning a Panzergrenadier company to complete for Gottacon in Victoria February 27-29, 2015. I have three months before the tournament to finish 25 models and a display board.

The tournament format is 1750 points Late War with books restricted to August 1944. The only books allowed are Overlord/Atlantik Wall and Red Bear/Grey Wolf and some Fortress Italy/Road to Rome lists and pdfs. I think the tournament restrictions will see some small shifts in the "meta" for the tournament. I was excited at first thinking about playing games against more restricted Allied lists (less high anti-tank and super weapons). Then I realized some of the nasty combinations that the Soviets can take from Red Bear. My other concern is that the German lists will feature a lot of fortified lists. Regardless, it will be nice to see some different lists out from earlier in Late War.

I've been playing around with a few lists for the tournament. I've been planning to build a Panzer Lehr Gepanzerte Panzergrenadier list from Atlantik Wall for a few months. I have the new plastic Panzergrenadier platoons to build it up. The list is based around two large panzergrenadier platoons, two panzer IV platoons, pumas, and nebelwerfers. I've included the list below.


I had a few new (to me) thoughts about list building with this list. I find that there is often a lot of focus on support platoons but have found that it is the main combat platoons that usually win games (especially on attack). For this reason, I've built a list with four really strong main platoons that can capture and hold objectives. This list has 32 Veteran models that can reliably launch assaults. The Pumas will lift gone to ground and stop ambushes and have the AT to take the odd flank shot and tanks as well. The Nebs provide some needed smoke for assaulting and can pin attacking infantry.

The big hole in this force is ranged anti-tank. I've found that the Panzer IVs seem to have enough anti-tank to deal with most tank forces. They really struggle against Panther class vehicles (front armour around 10, big AT gun). My hope is that a Panzer IV platoon coming out from ambush can take out attacking Panthers and heavy tanks and that the sheer numbers and mobility can deal with heavy tanks when I have to attack.

This platoon just needs 2 tank hunters. I secretly want to paint a totally different platoon though.
I've also made an alternate list that has 3 Panther and 4 Panzer IVs instead of the 10 Panzer IVs. Panthers are really nice against medium tanks and tanks with medium-high front armour. They are always a magnet for planes and artillery and don't assault as well as Panzer IVs. I may try both in a few games and see which I prefer. One of my regular opponents is playing tankovy and another a Panther company for the tournament so I will get plenty of chances to test the two lists against tank heavy lists.

The real challenge will be getting everything painted. I thought I was in pretty good shape as I only have 1 platoon and HQ to paint. When I made my painting chart I realized I have lots to paint as I have the large Panzergrenadier platoon and all of the Sd.Kfz 251/1s. The infantry platoon alone might tank me the entire time until the tournament. I've got the HQ and two more tank hunters on the table right now. After that I may start work on the 251/1s. I have three months to paint but it will be a real challenge to complete this list on time. I may not have time to build a display board for this tournament. I am hoping to complete all of the models and the crews for the half-tracks before the tournament.

Thanks for visiting. Comments and thoughts on the army lists would be appreciated. Do any of you have experience with tournaments with similar restrictions? Coming up in the next few weeks I have some airplanes, Jagdtigers, and Panzergrenadiers. You can get more updates by following me on twitter @RustAndTheCity.

29 comments:

  1. Fighting against a fortified German force is what totally infuriated me at the FOW tournament I played in. It was the previous rule version, so I *think* bunkers are slightly easier to deal with, but I'd suggest you might want to have a plan for the multiple bunker, minefield/barbed wire, antitank list you might encounter. Maybe armoured assault panzergrendiers will do it? I felt that having artillery with a staff team as well as a second set of something that could smoke would be an important element. Otherwise a bunker buster gun of some sort?

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    1. Yeah. Fortified is really tough. I've played against fortified a few times. It is really hard. I'm hoping that have 4 really tough assault platoons will help. I'd really like to add some breakthrough guns but don't have good options to add them in the force organization I am using. After my last tournament I had decided that I needed to add flamethrowers or breakthrough guns to my next list... Another list I had considered was a Fortress Italy list with Stuh42s. Unfortunately I would need to get quite a few new models to do it. Maybe later on I will.

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    2. Flamethrowers are nice for tough tanks, but strangely useless against bunkers (unless it's improved *sigh*). Maybe some of the big mech artillery? Do the hummel(?) still have bunker buster? It'd cover artillery, additional AT threat (1+fp is pretty badass), and cover off the all important anti bunker problem. Cost is the big issue (points, as well as cash for figs)
      I don't know how accessible grilles would be, although I think they are a cheaper option.

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    3. The list has Wespes, Hummels, and Grilles. The issue is points. I'd have to reduce some of my other platoons to fit it in. Might be worth it though. I'll see how the tournament goes first I guess.

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    4. I'm assuming the games will be red on blue. The Allies have no fortified lists from Overlord. Soviets have a few. The bigger issues might be navel gun fire.

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  2. HI Cameron

    Nice list, very similar to one I was looking at a while ago.

    Can I ask how you do your city basing? It's something I want to do for a EW/Early MW German Gren army.

    Good Luck

    Ben

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    1. Hi Ben,
      For the basing I use a resin basing material (I think mine is Golden Coarse pumice, vallejo works fine too). While it is wet I sprinkle in GF9 small and medium basing grit and sometimes some other little bits of ballast. I also add in any extra details like metal cast items, bits of wood and crates and things.

      To paint them I base them black and then drybrush up successively lighter shades of grey. I then paint the details and add some dust using an enamel mud wash and a Tamiya weathering master set.

      Maybe I will do a short tutorial on how I do it on some of my next models.

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    2. Please do mate, cos I'd love to see how you do it, step by step.

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    3. Okay. I've got some that are a little bit in progress already. I could always do just a sample test base. It is very quick and easy to throw together.

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  3. So you are coming to Gottacon? I need to try and figure out how busy I'm going to be with school then, but I would love to play in the tournament. The list restrictions seem good, but I have no idea what I would bring.

    I really like both your lists, but especially the first one. If you do encounter a few heavy tanks I think your infantry with tank hunter teams should be able to help you out as well.

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    1. I am planning to go to Gottacon, assuming nothing else ends up taking up that weekend. You'll have to bring your new nebs. The lists are pretty generic from Grey Wolf and Atlantik Wall so you should have plenty of choice.

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  4. "I secretly want to paint a totally different platoon though" - this brings me so much vicarious joy!

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    1. Hahaha. Yes. I really hate when everything is not perfectly matching. I spent a tonne of time on the panzergrenadier platoon but they are not really up to the assembly, basing, and painting standard of what my next platoons will be. Oh well. I doubt they will be replaced for a long while as it takes me so long to paint anything!

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  5. I like the 2 platoons of Pziv's the best. The Panthers are not points effective imo, with a side armour value that even a Sherman can comfortably pop and being very vulnerable to arti fire with their top armour of only 1.

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    1. That's totally my line of thinking as well. Panthers are wonderful, but for the points they are just too vulnerable to so many other things. I'd love to include Panthers but I think the Panzer IV is just as good against 85% of opponents while allowing my list to be much better against infantry and lighter companies.

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    2. I'm really interested to see the points cost and force organization for the new British comets. If they are simply British Panthers then I can't see myself really fielding them. I hope the stats and points are reasonable enough that they fit well in a competitive list.

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    3. Yeah, I just saw an add for the next book. It has me excited but also apprehensive for the same reasons. Saying that, I'll still field them! I have to, been waiting this long for them to be released in the first place. I'm also hoping they will release a Mosquito model for air support!

      German options they mentioned sound cool too - all that Night Fighting stuff sounds super fun.

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  6. Personally, I'd go with the Panther list. You get three fewer hulls, but you can deal with a lot more threats. With two platoons of Panzergrens, you don't needs the Panzer 4 mass of hulls as much as when you run an armored company.

    Both my Hungarian Armour and my Brit paras would prefer to face the 10 Panzer 4s rather than have the Panthers sprinkled in there.

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    1. Wow, really? The paras would prefer the panzer ivs? Because the 6 pounders can hurt them in the front?

      I am still a bit torn. The Panthers are just so vulnerable for the points. Last game against Glen I lost them on turn 1 to planes and ambushing SU-100s at long range. Nothing I could really do to avoid it and I lost 560 points. The Panzer IVs survive something based on saturation.

      I agree that 3 panthers would definitely be useful against your Hungarian list!

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    2. I also have 7 panthers painted, but none to really match the rest of the company :-).

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    3. For the paras, I'm not worried about either the Panzer 4s or the Panthers assaulting. I'm not worried about the Panzer 4s trying to pick me off from long range either, since the 6 pounders would do a number on them. The panthers however can drive up within 16 and try to pick off 6 pounders. If you can keep your recce alive and lift gone to ground that'll make it even easier.

      Your tanks are there to support your two rock solid infantry platoons, so you need to take the stuff that will help them close in and assault when you're on the attack, and the stuff that will make an attacker cautious when he's coming at you. A few extra hulls of Panzer 4s does neither.

      You have 6 platoons, if an armoured company is coming at you, can start with 2 platoons of Panzergrens and the panthers, or 1 of panzergrens, panthers, and 4 panzer 4s.

      That's the route I'd go. I haven't decided if I'm going to Gottacon or not, but if I do, you now know how to beat me!

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    4. I really wish I had breakthrough guns to deal with those pesky AT guns. If the list had the option for a platoon of StuH42s it would be perfect.

      I may not go to Gottacon after all. We will see. Our group is talking about going to Wet Coast instead. I enjoyed Gottacon last year. It is a long trip with the ferry too.

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    5. You know, I think we have only actually played two games against each other and I've lost both of them. We'll have to play a few games sometime soon. Maybe the Padawan can defeat the Master.

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    6. Oh I have no doubt you will, that last game was a nailbiter!

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    7. Hahaha. I shouldn't have assaulted over the river. I hadn't realized quite how crippling that would be. Oh well. I'd like to face your Hungarians again. My panzer list has been doing well lately.

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  7. They were both close games! Ok that's awesome, I'll be at Wet Coast for sure. Hopefully it won't be era restricted either so I can bring my Market Garden paras. I've been doing a bit of painting for them lately.

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  8. Those guns refusing to die saved my ass. The panzer 4/70 hitting ever trees in the woods helped too.

    It's a solid list, nothing I'd change about it. Maybe a bit less aggressive with the Pumas!

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  9. If you've got some extra models that you're not playing with, please consider putting together an entry to the GottaCon miniature painting contest. You've got some amazing looking miniatures on your blog, and we'd love to see them in the display cases.

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    1. Thanks for the kind words. I'm not sure if I will end up making it. I really want to. Will you have a historical or 15mm painting category? I may try to paint something in 28mm scale too if I get the chance.

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